"They Don't Have to Have that Look" by David Rattray
"The Ache of Marriage" by Denise Levertov
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note" by LeRoi Jones
"In the Waiting Room" by Elizabeth Bishop
This week I've handed out several poems to augment our exploration of the self, existence, and the self's relationship with others. Your comment could take several different forms:
* You might show how the poem addresses a theme (or makes use of an image or technique or relationship or ... that has been developed elsewhere too -- in the existential short story or non-fiction piece you have already written about, in King Lear, in As I Lay Dying, etc.
* You might explain how the way the poem is written contributes to its meaning and effect.
* You could respond in the form of say-play-imply (or say-play-suggest, if you prefer) or SOAPStone + theme or TPCAST + theme.
* You might respond to the poem personally. (Make sure you show an understanding of the poem as you respond to it.) Do you relate or connect? To what? Why?
* You might write a poem or brief play in response to the poem. (Again, as long as the literary work shows an understanding of the poem. Append a little note to the end of your creative piece explaining how your poem or play makes use of the original poem.)
Begin your post this way:
First name and last initial: JCook
The name of the poem(s) you will focus on: "They Don't Have to Have that Look" by David Rattray, "The Ache of Marriage" by Denise Levertov, "Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note" by LeRoi Jones, "In the Waiting Room" by Elizabeth Bishop
I am interested in reading what you have to say about these poems.
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29 comments:
SJohnson
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note" - Leroi Jones/Amiri Baraka
Say: As the title denotes, the speaker is taking a look back on his life, and what things have "come to." The speaker says that he feels the ground envelopes him when walking his dog, and that the wind makes silly, broad-edged music. He"counts the stars" repeatedly, and when the stars aren't out, he counts the places where they should be. The speaker also notes that "nobody sings anymore." Then there is a recounted experience of the speaker happening upon a daughter who was talking aloud, seemingly to herself, "peeking into her own clasped hands."
Play: This poem is written in free verse, so when you read it straight through, outloud, it feels more like a story is being told. The speaker uses repetition to invoke a feeling of monotony in the third stanza (And now...And each...And when...). The form is also interesting. The three lines that stand alone are curious, because the first two are full sentences, and are able to stand alone (Things have come to that. Nobody sings anymore.) They are facts, though they seem to be more reflective and meant to help connect with the audience rather than simple statements. But the third one is not, it is a continuation of a sentence above. (Only she on her knees, peeking into/ Her own clasped hands.)
Imply: Regarding the stand alone lines: (specifically the 3rd one) Perhaps the reason the author chooses to do this is that the third stanza isn't about how the world relates to the speaker, or how the speaker views the world, but rather how the speaker relates to his daughter. Connecting with another person, especially in a suicide note, is different than just feeling bad for yourself about how miserable your life is. I think that's why this thought is separate, because the speaker is realizing the gravity of a living person,with clasped hands. And maybe the little girl is praying, maybe even for the safety of her conflicted father. It might be the speaker breaking down, unable to remain removed from the world he's in.
The first stanza seems to me like a set up of the monotony played on in the stars stanza. The walking of the dog is such a daily chore, as is running to catch the bus. These activities are mundane, and make the speaker feel hopeless. Which is why they are so exasperated, and need to count the stars. Which is funny ("funny"), because counting the stars has always been that impossible tasks that sphynxi use as ridiculous quests in legends and things like that. So it's a true indicator of boredom and monotony that the speaker counts them, and gets the same number "each night", and even when there are no stars to count, he counts them anyways! This leaves me with a question about that second stand-alone line.
"Nobody sings anymore" I don't know what this means. Maybe it's to note the desparity the speaker feels as he counts holes in the sky every night, or maybe it's because the holes make him think of family issues at home. It's also interesting that the speaker would assume his daughter was actually talking to someone. I know i played a lot of pretend as a child, and it's not that out of the ordinary. Maybe, though, for this child it was out of the ordinary. It broke the mundane, and she was peeking into her own clasped hands. That strong image of praying which might have nothing to do with praying at all.
This reminds me of the fear the author in "the Dreamer did Not Exist" felt when he tried to understand existence. This speaker is unimpressed by daily life, much like the young boy in Dreamer. Unlike that young boy though, this speaker has a reason to see past the monotony, because somebody else depends on him.
"The Ache of Marriage" - Denise Levertov
I really liked the abstract vagueness of this poem. The speaker refuses to explicitly define this “ache.” The lack of periods at the end of the sentences causes the stanzas to run into each other and I think forces the reader to create his own logic for the progression of statements within the poem. This all echoes the subject of the poem itself: this incommunicable “ache.”
The first two stanzas portray this “ache” as something that exists within relationships. I think Levertov selects body parts associated with intimacy (“thigh” and “tongue”) to emphasize that this “ache” is an effect of the intimacy of marriage that doesn’t exist as part of any other relationship. However it also “throbs in the teeth.” I think this half-contradiction tells us that this kind of pain, although it is a part only of the most intimate relationships, is just like any other physical pain. This line also makes me think of the physical manifestations of anxiety; Levertov seems to just approach a definition of this “ache” as an anxiety caused by intimacy.
In the third stanza Levertov skittishly moves closer towards a definition. The “ache” seems to be caused by the impossibility of ever achieving absolute “communion.” Levertov says explicitly that we never achieve communion. However, obviously there exists some kind of connection between spouses. Perhaps it is only in searching for the next level of connection that we are “turned away.” I think Levertov is saying that although marriage carries connotations of unparalleled intimacy, married people still exist separate from one another. The next line (“each and each”) seems to emphasize the distance between “each” and “each.” This line is extremely ambiguous but Levertov doesn’t say “each couple” for instance.
The fourth stanza contradicts the third (this one stating that we exist within it rather than it existing within us). According to Levertov both conditions exist simultaneously: this “ache” exists as both a part of marriage and its encompassing definition. IE the relationship of marriage is defined by the “ache.” The image of the “ache” as “leviathan” for the first time tells us that the “ache” is a big, overbearing problem. It is inescapable and undeniable. The last two lines present a similar problem as that given in the third stanza. We expect some joy in marriage not to be found elsewhere. Although Levertov doesn’t say it explicitly she implies that we never find it. Her choice not to say this explicitly, though, allows the reader to wonder if the joy exists. This joy may exist but be impossible to ever really grasp. Her inability to finish the thought suggests that the speaker may actually still be looking for this joy. The searching in itself is part of the “ache.”
The last stanza is an obvious allusion to Noah’s ark. But the phrase “two by two” emphasizes that this is a struggle shared by all couples. The stanza also seems to suggest that as an “ark,” the “ache” also saves us.
I am struggling with the mood of this piece. The initial connotations of the word ache are of course negative. The use of images like aching teeth and “leviathan” are also negative as are the ideas of being turned away from absolute communion and from joy. Levertov wants us to come up with our definitions for this “ache.” But if I could give you my definition, this ache is the necessary pain of being separate. Ultimately, no matter how close any two people are, they can never become one. It is this search for the ultimate joy of complete communion that comprises the ache of marriage – an ache that every couple must struggle with until they come to recognize it.
ATrotsky
"They Don't Have to Have That Look" -David Rattray
The poem “They Don’t Have to Have That Look” proposes an interesting idea as to what we perceive monsters are. Poet David Rattray suggests that monsters are not necessarily the grotesque, deformed figures that commonly come to mind, but rather they are something we cannot physically see. In Rattray’s opinion, the term “monster” is more appropriately defined as anything that can instill true fear in us, which ultimately leads to our death. “They’re already with you wherever you are, sleeping now sleeping in the marrow of your bones. . .”. Rattray is implying that that which can kill us is always in our presence. I think it is possible that he is also suggesting that our greatest fear is the unknown (what happens in the afterlife) for this is what makes us so afraid of death.
In this poem, Rattray suggests that although we might “hear” these “monsters” we may pretend that they are not there. However, in time we cannot deny them, “At last you’ll know they’re there. . .”. This idea is also introduced in William Shakespeare’s play, “King Lear”. King Lear only hears what he wants to hear from his daughters, and is unable to differentiate the lies he is being told by his elder daughters. In the end, the truth comes to surface and King Lear realizes he was deceived. Both Shakespeare and Rattray are stating that we must acknowledge the clear truth rather than deny it to protect our emotions.
MMcGovern
“They Don’t Have to Have that Look” by David Rattray
While reading this poem, the first thing that jumped out at me were the similarities between it and the short story “How They Took Apart My Body and Made Another Me.” The main similarity to me was the use of words pertaining to body parts, everyday appliances, and suffering. In the short story, appliances are used to replace body parts, but in the poem, they seemed to be used to inflict pain. There is also a slight difference in how both pieces refer to body parts. In the story, body parts are seen as something coveted and needed for the narrator’s identity. However, in the poem, body parts are used more to show that the pain and wrongness the person is feeling is inside of them.
Other similarities between the poem and the story are that they seem to focus on types of perverted surgery that isn’t right and is causing more pain than good. In the poem, the speaker states, “Screech at you out of every stainless steel Utensil in the intensive care unit” This relates to “How They Took My Body Apart” because as in the poem, a person is being (what seems to be) unjustly operated on. Also, pain also seems to be a similarity between the poem and story. In Rattray’s poem, the final lines state, “You in the extremity of your terror and you will be screaming loud.” The narrator in HTTMBA also often says that he screamed in pain throughout his experience. This leads to another similarity that I noticed between the two pieces, which was the theme of identity. In HTTMBA, the narrator comes to terms with his identity through having his insides lookin at. In the poem, the speaker talks about having things, “Sleeping in the marrow of your bones soon they’ll rise up in full cry you’ll wonder if you’re hearing things” This seems to say that there is something inside the person the speaker is referring to that they have not yet come to terms with. This seems to show that the person is not yet fully aware of their identity and won’t be able to come to terms with themselves until they are able to deal with the things inside of them.
ALees
"In the Waiting Room" by Elizabeth Bishop
I felt an instant connection to Elizabeth (the narrator) in the part in the poem when she talks about her horror at the things she finds in the National Geographic; “…the sensation of falling off the round, turning world into cold blue-black space” (Bishop S5 L4-6). I remember seeing things in magazine or in movies when I was small that disturbed me so much that they shook my concept of the world. I think that the main thing that the Elizabeth is struggling with this piece is the nature of humanity and her identity as part of humanity. She says, “But I felt, you are an I, you are an Elizabeth, you are one of them.” After reading about the horrors of human nature, she now realizes that she is a member of humanity, the “them” that she was reading about. She can’t deal with this new reality. “I scarcely dared look to see what it was I was.” She is so afraid of the darkness of reality and her own pain that even though she realizes that the “oh! of pain” was hers, she still doesn’t acknowledge it; “…How had I come to be here, like them, and overhear a cry of pain that could have gotten worse but hadn’t?” These lines are written so well though that the line could also mean that the narrator wondered how she had come to this realization about humanity when she “overhear[d]” a metaphorical “cry of pain” from humanity.
Elizabeth’s denial of her new realizations can be seen in the poet’s play with “inside” and “outside.” The way Bishop uses the two words seems contradictory but actually helps explain Elizabeth’s confusion with her identity as an individual and her identity as a human being. “Suddenly, from inside, came an oh! of pain—Aunt Consuelo’s voice—” Elizabeth hears the sound inside the dentist’s office but she believe it to be outside herself when in fact it comes from inside her. Inside/outside is used again after Elizabeth manages to recover from the wave of horror that washes over her. “Then I was back in it (the dentist’s office? The world? The present?) The War was on. Outside, in Worcester, Massachusetts, were night and slush and cold, and it was still the fifth of February, 1918.” I think that here outside/inside separates the place of her discovery from the world she knows. The word “still” suggests continuity and familiarity.
I’m sorry that this post is so rambling and disjointed. My thoughts just sort of came out that way this time.
BHand
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note"
The beginning of this poem seems to me very selfish and almost self-indulgent. When you look at it as an actual suicide note, it appears even more selfish. In the opening stanza, the speaker refers to the world as if it exists simply for the speaker, who notes that the "ground opens up and envelopes" him, or how the wind makes "edged silly music" when he runs for a bus. In this sense, the world needs the narrator to exists in this lively manner.
The second stanza contrasts with the first stanza greatly. The first stanza told of how the speaker's world needed the speaker to become animated. The wind makes music only when the speaker runs for a bus, and the ground opens up only when the speaker walks his dog. I think the first was the speaker playing into his desires by telling of how the world becomes different when he is around.
The second stanza stresses how the speaker needs the world. "each night" he counts the stars, and "each night" the speaker gets the same number. When the stars don't come out, the speaker "count[s] the holes they leave." This stanza illustrates the speaker's dependence on nature; he is so used to the stars that in his mind they leave holes when they are not there.
To me, this stanza stood out from the first one but I also think you could view it as one that coincides with the first one, because the speaker is treating nature like a person; even when stars are not out (something that occurs naturally and repetitively) the speaker claims they are leaving holes in the sky. I think this, like the first stanza, highlights the speakers inability to submit to the power of nature and his tendency to describe nature as if it depends on him for existence.
I think the third stanza rips the narrator out of his self-centered world and throws him, maybe to his dismay, into a world where life is beyond merely him and nature. Everything the speaker does in the third stanza is in service of his daughter, and not a self-serving web of language as in the other two stanzas.
I think its important to note the stand alone lines and how the only one not related to the speaker or his selfish haze is the third and final line. Both "things have come to that" and "nobody sings anymore" seem to reflect the speaker's views of a solitary world where hope is lost. But the last one, "her own clasped hands" seems to be related and perhaps genuinely sympathetic to someone other than himself and nature.
I find comparisons between this poem and "Love" difficult because "Love" seemed to be stressing that ultimately, we are consumed by the linear, repetitive nature of life. This poem seems almost like this nature of life is both killing and saving the narrator. I also had this thought that the daughter talking alone and peeking into her own clasped hands as being the blind man chewing gum for the speaker. This moment seems to tear the speaker out of his mechanical daze much like the blind man shook Anna into seeing the world differently.
CKelly
"They Don't Have to Have Than Look" by David Rattray
I really liked this poem, I think mostly because of the ambiguity. Rattrays exclusive use of pronouns when referring to "they" causes the reader to spend the entire poem trying to figure out what "they" are.
After reading the poem through a few times, I understand "they" to be the portents of death or nonexistence. They are the little thoughts that everyone has as they are nearing the end of their existence and are faced with the frightening thought of nothingness. "you Will have a posse of them on your ass One day" seems to say, "if you don't feel it now, wait until you get older." This statement stuck out to me for several reasons. First, it ends with the first of the only two periods (or any puntuation) in the whole poem. The finality of the period can be felt in its spare usage and its interesting placement in the middle of a line. However, what I think is more significant is the slight change in style that this particular phrase has apart from the rest of the poem. By using "posse" and "on your ass," Rattray is using younger diction, and is therefore speaking directly to a younger audience, both in his diction and his message.
This period is also important, as Mr. Cook pointed out, as the pivitol point of the poem breaks out the bad news. The pharse "Make your hair go dead and stand Between you and the comfort you will need...as they rot your gums and Tear the teeth out of your head" surprised me, not only in its graphic nature, but in the way it seems to depict "them" as something different, more physical, perhaps old age. But if I stick to my earlier theory about "them," Ratrray seems to imply that it is the fear of death, the all-comsuming axiety of nonexistence, that causes the symptoms of old age, and based on the last line, perhaps even death itself; "they Cluster on the ceiling overhead to drop on You in the extremity of you terror And you will be screaming loud.
ALechleiter
"They Don't Have to Have That Look" -David Rattray
This poem takes an interesting view on how monsters don’t always have a look that can distinguish them from everybody else. The thing is that anyone and everyone could be a monster, as Rattray points out in “Sleeping now sleeping in the marrow of your bones soon they’ll rise up in full cry...” I get form that even we the readers are monsters. Also Rattray implies that what a monster truly is, it is the thing that can instill fear in a you without even trying really and no matter how hard you can try to hide from it the monster will find you.
There also seems to be no escape from these monsters, it is mentioned that even when you are out in the hospital with what can only be the fear from these things that they will still come at you through the “teevee screen” and “Bubble in the I.V. tubes” there is no escape from that which we fear. I can’t really tell what Rattray is trying to get through to the audience, what is his final message, maybe to be careful of all those around you and to makes sure you go through life remembering that they all don’t have that look.
NNimon
"In the Waiting Room" - Elizabeth Bishop
The thing about the poem that struck me was how the speaker made a point about how every person is made up of parts of other people. The speaker says, "What took me/completely by surprise/was that is was me:/my voice, in my mouth." The speaker (seemingly the author herself) in the dentist's office suddenly finds herself in her Aunt Consuelo's cry of pain. She asks, "What similarities-/boots, hands, the family voice/I felt in my throat...held us all together/or made us all just one?" I love the fact that the speaker sees this thread of connection between all human beings. When she sort of steps outside of herself or her thoughts of herself as a separate identity, she sees that she is just a whole made up of many parts. She is partly her aunt, partly her family, partly the woman in the National Geographic. The whole world is connected, because we are all human. In the poem the speaker seems to step outside the world to see this connected view. I wonder if she wrote this poem because the world in 1918 was in the middle of World War I. Most of the world had forgotten their connection, that everyone was the same. The speaker for a moment in this poem is able to tell the world that she is connected to them. But at the end, she steps back out of space, and "the War was on. Outside,/in Worcester, Massachusetts,/...and it was still the fifth/of February, 1918." It seems to me to bring up the question of whether the world can really ever remember that we are the same. If people forever remembered that they were connected, would wars cease? But people forget, or choose not to remember, and then, "[we are] back in it./ The War [is] on."
Mr Cook says:
In "The Ache of Marriage" "leviathan and we/in its belly" is likely an allusion to Jonah and the Whale just as "two by two in the ark" is a likely allusion to Noah and the ark.
Jus' sayin' is all.
Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note
I could relate to this poem the first time I read it. I read it over several more times afterwards to grasp the ideas more accurately and make sure I was still feeling connected to the words and their meaning. What I took from this was how aside from the hussle bussle of the world and what life is thought to be, this writer has grown fascinated by the idea of just being. Being outside and feeling nature itself wrap you up, almost closing the gap or separation between you and nature, become it yourself. When it says “And now, each night I count the stars” and so on the author is portraying how she now lives her life after having an experience like she has. Despite the fact that “nobody sings anymore” she has found part of the answer to our existing and is captivated by it. At the end when she finds her daughter praying and kneeling down talking to her own hands, I got the idea how this mother’s thinking is not so much knew, but just cleansed and replenished. When you’re young and innocent as her daughter is, you are untouched and uninfluenced and know nothing else but to believe because nothing’s told you otherwise yet and walking in and seeing her daughter is proof of this.
HBenson
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note" Leroi Jones and Amiri Baraka
Say: This poem in the most literal sense is the author reflecting on his life and it seems as though it is right up until the day that he is writing that he looks back on. You can see this in the first line when it starts off with "lately." And also in the middle with "Things have come to that." It is a recent alleged boredom.
Play: The poem, as SJ already noted is written in Free Verse. Each stanza is four lines with one in between, and the line in between being the more "suicidal" of the lines. It is the part that describes the stanza before of a point in his life and how it is blahh to him. I really actually liked this poem even though the title was slightly intimidating.
Imply: This poem implies, just by the dedication that it is meant for his daughter. She means something to him, and maybe in the last stanza when the author insinuates that his daughter is also praying for something, maybe change, he is most unhappy. I think that when he sees her praying or yelling or speaking on the ground that he has created not only a sad world for himself as of late but also one for his daughter. Maybe it is not his fault but the fact that he sees her like him makes him feel bad. How can someone he loves (obviously as the poem is dedicated to her and she is a central focus) feel sad like him. How can he be so wrapped up in his own sorrows that he can't help her. It could be that I am too into my own theory but it seemed like his own sadness was reflected through his daughter and that is what pushed him over the edge.
As for the title, I think that it shows that although this is a meaningful poem that sums it up (as a preface insinuates) it shows that he has more to say. It is important to note that there is a lot he intends to reflect upon, or maybe wants others to reflect upon once he is gone. He writes the preface and the rest is filled in. Maybe its the others knowing his life that the preface will connect perfectly. I don't know. It also may be that his death is the unwritten. I wish I was not just spit balling here but basically that's what I think, and I did enjoy this poem, though I did not necessarily relate to it in the suicidal sense.
Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note
When I began reading I got the feeling the author was listing characteristics of his life’s substance, or in this case lack there of. This was confirmed when the speaker said, “Things have come to that”. The little things life now consists of are monumental for the speaker and illuminate the simplest actions like counting stars. Regarding the counting stars statement, I got the feeling that life was becoming tiresome for the author because of the sentence that followed. The next line is “And each night I get the same number”. I just got a depressing feeling that said nothing ever changed for the speaker, and that no matter how many counts of stars took place; it was still the same number. I felt like it was dissatisfying. The line “Nobody sings anymore” was out of place in that it wasn’t really followed by something directly related to it, but I understood it in the context of the poem. It made perfect sense for the speaker to notice what is missing in the world, to observe that nobody is singing.
C Rideout
"They Don't Have To Have That Look"
Like Courtland said, I liked the ambiguity attained through the use of pronouns. I liked her theory about the 'They' referring to "portents of death or nonexistence". But the thirteenth and fourteenth lines made me think that the 'they' could also be referring to the ghosts of one's past (which, as one is nearing death and nothingness, would certainly be haunting). The speaker says "At last you'll know they're there and real as every filthy thing you did". This implies that 'they' will remind us of our negative memories because 'they' are as real as those memories. I think the speaker is saying that the filthy thoughts that consumed us at one point will come back to haunt us. I'm interested in the word choice filthy. I'm not sure if its a sexual connotation (as we grow older our sexual comforts become less? maybe?) or maybe just used to say how awful regrets can be, but nonetheless, I thought the two lines were interesting to the whole.
I also really liked the physicalness of the poem. Phrases like "tear the teeth" and "sing and screech" have a nice rhythm to them. Even though they are graphic thoughts. I thought it was strange how instead of T.V. the author used teevee, especially since in the next line the author uses I.V. Maybe to emphasize the sound? Or it could just be a convention I'm unaware of.
The ending kind of confused me. I wonder if at the end of the poem, the speaker is implying that when 'they' fall on you, you die.
'The City' poem.
There is a “too late” feeling in The City poem. It’s understood, especially in comparison to the Ithaka poem which is more optimistic and flexible with fate, that the character trapped inside The City poem has stayed too long, “spent so many years, wasted them”, and it is now too late to leave or get away. It’s because of his lingering and staying around that it would not be the same leaving as it would have been had he left before developing these feelings. Now it is inevitable that he will bring with him the monstrous feelings that he has turned into himself where ever he goes. It has touched his core now…”and my heart lies buried as though it were something dead,” …too much that he would never be able to just up and leave and escape what has happened inside himself. This poem reminds me of seniors graduating from high school and not moving on to something else. Whether it’s commuting somewhere to continue your education, living a short distance away, or very far away, it is an important “move along” time, kind of like a shove forward to not stop yet because you’re bound to get stuck if you do. A lot like the short story ‘Love’ I read recently, instead of a dangerous hour of the day, this is a dangerous few months and year. With it either comes gradual but significant growth as a person OR on the other end a permanent trapped\empty feeling and habit that one becomes used to but not happy with.
LFox
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note"
SAY:
it's normal for the ground to swallow the speaker when he walks the dog.
it's normal for the wind to make silly music.
This normalness is meaningful.
The speaker counts stars every night with no change.
When the stars don't appear, the empty space left behind is equivalent to the star that had been there.
No one sings anymore.
The speaker spies on his daughter and finds her on her knees with clasped hands, talking to someone not visible to him.
PLAY:
Speaking in terms of analogy, the first stanza is to “things have come to that” as the second stanza is to “nobody sings anymore”. Each independent line acts as a form of repetition, emphasizing the idea of routine expressed in the first two stanzas. Then there’s the shift. The speaker no longer talks about the things he does every day, but instead the thing he did last night, the thing he did differently (“And then last night…”).
IMPLY
well first, I think the poem is kinda’ humorous. A twenty volume suicide note? That’s hilarious, even if it is a little dark. (but you also know that because the preface is so hopeful, then there’s probably a happy ending. Perhaps after twenty volumes, the author realizes she/he doesn’t feel so suicidal after all.)
I think that the first two stanzas (and their corresponding independent lines) encompass the mundane routine of his life, and how sad it is. Sad because of all that which can overwhelm you (being enveloped), sad because of the desperation (running to catch a bus). Sad because this is all routine. And routine is so hard to break. He knows it’s bad when he KNOWS how bad his routine is and still can’t break away: “things have come to that.” Let me try and make that clearer: to be enveloped by the earth every time you walk the dog is bad; but to consider this normal, to be accustomed to it is even worse. And the speaker realizes how bad that is, and still can’t do anything about it. It’s overall depressing and a feeling of powerlessness. In the second stanza, the speaker is doing a seemingly impossible task (counting the stars), yet does it each time, and gets the same number. There is no joy in this accomplishment. It’s almost like he’s looking for new possibility where there should ALWAYS be endless possibility and is finding NOTHING in all that something.
In the final stanza, however, there is hope. Because the speaker DOES break away from the despairing routine. The clasped hands suggest praying, which suggests a belief in a higher power, and regardless of your religion, I think all higher powers celebrate life. So not only does the shift break the depressing routine, it implies hope and faith and love (the daughter aspect) and meaning and just all around good feelings. Yay.
Jac, I agree with you that the speaker notices what is missing. The missing stars (the holes they leave), the no one singing, the new stars that she/he maybe feels like should be there, but never are (b/c they get the same number everytime) I just thought that was right.
"They Don't Have That Look"
Okay, gonna be honest, I was thinking about the tv show "Charmed" when I read this poem. It's clearly about demons, and I just started picturing different scenes from the show. I know, wicked lame.
While many in my class reacted to this poem in a frightened and disturbed manner, I was contrarily intruiged and unabashed by it. I thought it was more of a wake up call for everyone than a threat as it may have been percieved. On the contrary to what Courtland thought, I felt the poem animated the regret and guilt that people often feel later on in life, when they feel their skeletons have caught up with them. It shows that they are inescapable, and will follow you everywhere. “At last you’ll know they’re there and/ Real as every filthy thing you did”. I feel like the poet is giving us a warning: take care of your demons now before they are so strong that they ruin you and literally drive you insane. “They’re already with you/ Wherever you are, sleeping now/…./ Soon they’ll rise up in full cry”.
By giving the demons actions (“..as they rot your gums and/ Tear the teeth out of your head” and “…sleeping now/ Sleeping in the marrow of your bones”) makes it easier to realize the physical effects they will honestly have on you. When someone obsesses over something, especially a guilt that they have, it surely drives them insane, drains their energy, and begins to deteriorate their brains and bodies. The phrase that jumped out at me more than any others was “They’ll…Bubble in the I.V. tubes and hum and sing and/ Screech at you”. I can just picture bubbles in an I.V. bag transforming into little sprites and giggling and screeching in madness at someone already out of their minds. I started thinking of all of the insane asylums in the movies, and how real this could be to someone like that. It’s really just awful to imagine, and I love how graphic and real the poem is. It really makes you think about redeeming yourself from your past discrepancies.
MCiaramitaro
THE ACHE OF MARRIAGE by Denise Levertov
The Ache of Marriage talks about the hardships, or the “aches” of marriage. However, this is also a very abstract concept in the poem. Author, Levertov, repeats the word “ache” to emphasis that marriage isn’t just romance, it is everything from, “Thigh and tounge” to the “throbs in the teeth.”
This poem is filled with biblical illusions and Catholic references. Catholics go to church to receive communion, the body of Christ. By taking this, they are uniting with the Lord and reaching deeper into their religion and faith. Levertov’s lines, “We look for communion/ and are turned away, beloved,/ each and each” express the binding of a couple by marriage. As Alex said, “no matter how close any two people are, they can never become one.” This is true also in the catholic religion, a person can only have so much faith and can never truly become one with God, but they will still try. It is almost as if they are married to the church. There were also references to the stories, Noah’s Ark, “two by two in the ark of/the ache of it.” and Jonah and the Whale (thanks Mr. Cook), “It is leviathan and we/in its belly.” The line continues, “looking for joy, some joy/not to be known outside it.” This is my favorite stanza. Although I don’t quite remember the story of Jonah and the Whale, I can assume it is a reference to being trapped inside. The binding of marriage traps two people together. I think this stanza signifies that although trapped together, it is together you are looking for that joy in life, and looking for and finding joy with someone is worth the “aches” of marriage. This is also a type of joy that can only be known to those who are married, “not to be known outside it.”
MLeach
In the Waiting Room- Elizabeth Bishop
The inner controversy that occurs in the second half of the poem, debating on the terms of identity was something I had to underline upon the first reads of this poem. I found the questions of us all being related, and all being a singular being, somewhat attractive. But I also felt it empty and haunting. It felt like gaining an identity as a mass of humanity, but at the same time losing your own personal identity. “You are an I/you are an Elizabeth/ you are one of them” Instantly takes away your individuality. AN Elizabeth means that there is more than one, that there are many Elizabeths.
“one of them” Reminds me of a quote from an episode from NBC’s Heroes:
West: Alien or Robot?
Claire:What?
West: are you an alien or a robot?
Claire: I’m a human
West: oh, so you’re a robot
Claire: what are you talking about
West: robots are all the same, they don’t change the status quo, they just do as they’re programmed. I knew you were a robot when you didn’t raise your hand. Aliens are different…they go against the grain.
Claire: what are you?
West: what do you think?
Here, I can obviously see a connection between ‘them’ and ‘robots’. The italics alone when referring to ‘them’ gives the word an acidity which makes it hard to swallow. When West speaks of robots, even his words alone make you realize that it’s always better to hold your own identity. The poetry holds a longing to hold your own ground, to make yourself an obvious individual. It seems to be human nature to all bundle together as cells do, to become a singular moving mass of humanity. Each person being a cell, in a colony, a community. And yet, in these two examples, we stray away from that, we don’t see the community, colony idea as ideal. It’s best to be an alien…to not be a robot, or one of them.
LMorgan
The Ache of Marriage
Denise Levertov
I think the tension in this poem rises from the uncertainty of the meaning of 'ache.' When I think of the word I associate it with desire, pain, discomfort, dizziness. The meaning of 'ache' seems to transform throughout the poem, creating an unidentifiable tone.
In the first stanza 'thigh and tongue' allude to the aching of lust within a married couple...knowing someone's body. The reference to throbbing in the teeth asserts that lust is painful, gritting.
I think the second stanza refers to the ache of realizing that it is impossible for a married couple to feel like a true couple - to feel as if they are combined into one product.
In the third stanza Levertov writes "It is leviathan and we / in its belly looking for joy, some joy / not to be known outside it." I think the 'it' she refers to is the word 'marriage.' The word and its connotations are so huge, and the aching stems from filling the expectation of being completely happy and entirely whole within it.
The first hurtle most people surmount as they grow is figuring out where they fit in the world, how to go about their own singular existence. The next hurtle for many is figuring out how to then coexist with another being. To me that is what the fourth stanza suggests along with the comparison to Noah's Ark. The task of living forever attached to another person, even if only under one word/one expectation, is monotonous. One might ache to break the repetition, or ache to find productivity in it.
The way this poem is written, with short separate stanzas, and only one period at the end, makes it feel as if the poem was written over time. Each stanza feels older than the one before it.
okay, so i'm pretty sure everyone who blogged about this said everything: repetition of his life and how normally beautiful and eventful things have become the every day as lucy pointed out (the ground envelops me, silly music), the three stand alone lines that sarah pointed out. I'm going to try and say something new... try.
Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note
In regards to the second stanza i think the stars represent people. "nobody sings anymore." seems to be reflecting on the "stars" that will not come to be counted, and the holes that they leave when they decide to stop the repetition...??? maybe. The stars could also be representing maybe his past, his past events, he counts his life calculates it... no. counting the stars is impossible, so why try such an impossible task. How does this line "nobody sings anymore." relate to the previous stanza. "things have come to that" relates to its previous stanza, as does "her own clasped hands."
Nobody sings because they see no pleasure in the monotony of "counting stars", or keeping a routine of boring seemingly impossible tasks with no end. what will counting stars get you? there is no end. i guess i'm still unsure about that second part.
CHugel
They Don’t Have To Have That Look (David Rattray)
If anything, this is a personal response. I didn’t enjoy this poem because this poem was not written to be enjoyed. I did like this poem the most. The others were very cerebral and they made me think and question and feel inferior when I couldn’t quite wrap my brain around them. This poem didn’t raise any questions. It was dark and terrifying, but I wasn’t inundated with questions about my soul or humanity, it didn’t cause a mini existential crisis. On one hand, death is terrifying. On the other, at least it is absolute. I always find it so interesting when people discuss “the question of mortality”. What is there to question? Everyone dies, and it probably isn’t going to be pretty. What is even uglier are the lengths people will go to, to avoid facing their mortality.
Kids won’t look in their closets because they are afraid of “real” monsters; adults won’t look ahead because they are afraid of catching a glimpse of the inevitable. Either way, we are afraid of the monsters we create. There is nothing stupider or more heartbreaking than watching someone live as though they had forever, or live because they want to avoid death. I’m not saying that death isn’t terrifying, it is. Anything unknown is terrifying and there is a reason they call it “the big unknown”. However, there is something to be said about living and accepting that eventually it will end.
And yes, eventually those “monsters” will get you because they get everyone and chances are we won’t be acquainted with the exception. Nevertheless, the only reason to be “screaming loud” would be to voice any regrets and if you don’t have any regrets than were there really monsters to begin with?
Kaylie M.
"Preface to a Twenty Volume Suicide Note" by LeRoi Jones
This poem was very striking to me as we read it. The way the poem is written contributes to its dramatic affect. The poem is organized into three blocks of text each separated by one line in between. Each of these three lines that stand alone reveals a lot within the poem. The lines are quite heavy and keep the pace of reading slow in order to emphasize the importance of the words.
Life has become repetitive for the speaker as he reveals through the first half of the poem, “and each night I get the same number(stars).” A depressed tone is developed from the beginning and carried throughout, “nobody sings anymore.” The beginning of the poem sets up the impact of the second half. Again the line breaks become very important, “talking to someone” begins the line and is separated by a coma so that it stands alone.
The ending is especially powerful, “Her own clasped hands” leaves the reader fully feeling the emotions within this poem. The part about the speaker’s daughter develops a strong image for me as I read it. I can picture the girl and feel the feel the speaker’s pain.
“They Don’t Have to Have That Look”
This poem starts by dispelling the usual description of monsters; the grotesque or the distorted. It instead says that it is already inside of you. I was particularly interested in the last half of the poem though. The description of the hospital-esque scene and the true horror it inspires brings to light that perhaps “monsters” are something you can see externally, but rather that something that resides within the individual. Always lurking, sometimes acting, and never apparent. This relates to my story “The Dreamer Did Not Exist” because it seems to draw a similar conclusion, although through a different path. This poem focuses on the fact that as people draw closer to death, they are more and more concerned with the nothingness that is their life. That is the monster inside of them. And as they get closer to death people become consumed by the purpose that they’re life serves and as such are consumed by the monster within.
Ecastro
"They Don't Have To Have That Look"
Reading this poem is terrifying. Not only is it terrifying because of the language used and the images created, but it is scary because it talks about something that is extremely real, usually ignored, sometimes dormant, and always there. In more elementary terms, the poem talks about monsters. Rattray's monsters, however, are not the horrible, gruesome creatures that "Look like the ancient Greeks imagine", but rather the ffearful thoughts that are buried inside of us that we work so hard to suppress, namely the foretoken of death.
Rattray's "They Don't Have To Have That Look" is incredibly clear in the message that it relays, there are not any ambiguities. The poem says that the fear is something intangible, but it's existence is just as real as any tangible entity. Just as abruptly and unexpectedly as a monster from under the bed would creep up to scare a child in the middle of the night, death will sneak up from behind and steal life away before the time was taken to appreciate it.
Ultimately, this is what I understood the poem to mean: The potential for death is always lurking, both within and around all humans, but death's presence does not become apparent until its potential becomes kinetic, that is, it is put into motion. In old age, the threat of death becomes real, it is no longer a distant, outlandish thought, but rather a brutal certainty. This impending premonition is what creates the "monsters". As humans approach their inevitable end, they become obsessed with defeating their mortality, as opposed to accepting their fate and savoring what time they have left. Humans then allow this obsession to overcome them, which only hastens their fated demise. Or, in other words, in the midst of trying to convince him/herself that there is not a monster hiding under the bed, he/she actually does the opposite, and creates a monster that didn't exist in the first place, and then the monster eats the kid.
Phew.
"They Don't Have To Have That Look"
One thing that seems important to the speaker in the poem is that the audience understands the reality of 'them.' Right from the beginning, the speaker forces us to take his ideas as a reality - "but they're real and exist/ As indisputably as anything you can/ Touch or see or feel." It reads, to me, like a confrontation. The way of speaking in general goes for this same effect with confrontational ("have a posse of them on your ass") ad visceral ("they rot your gums and/ Tear your teeth out of your head") descriptions. What really works in the poem is the disturbing images that are meant to raise general alarm and suspicion - actually, what I find darkly humorous is how the speaker seems to be trying to get the audience to be paranoid. The general idea is that they're going to sneak up on you - "You'll wonder if you're hearing things" - "They'll fill your dreams" - And the last lines are really effectively terrifying. The visual of scary-dark things clustering on your ceiling is just scary. And - the hospital referred to - IV's, stainless steel, intensive care, - maybe it's obvious to point out, but I'm reading that to mean that They get you in your last moments of life. Which is disturbing and interesting, since dying is supposed to be about going toward the light and peacing out and such..
It's easy to shove away some aspects of yourself and your past that you're not proud of, but one purpose of this poem is to remind you that your inner demons, whoever they are, will catch up with you someday -"At last you'll know they're there and/ Real as every filthy thing you did."
Ryan O
In The Waiting Room
Reading this poem reminded me of many things that i myself have been contemplating for a while. what stood out most for me, was the section where she says, “But I felt, you are an I, you are an Elizabeth, you are one of them.” While this may not have been her original intention, I certainly got a message out of this, that message being that, no matter who you are, or how individual, you are just simply a small part of something so much larger than you. And to think that, with all the things you may do in your life, there will always be people in the third world countries and who will have articles written about them in magazines. And it seems, being such a small part of something so large, how could only one persons actions make any kind of large difference?
"They Don't Have to Have that Look"
After reading this poem a number of times I tried to work out what I thought the "they" that David Rattray were. The ambiguity of the poem allows for a few different interpretations. My thoughts are that "they" are regrets; the thoughts of past actions/inactions that a mind can't shake. I came to this conclusion with the line "they're there and real as every filthy thing you did." My interpretation of this line is that there are regrets of past actions, or "filthy things," which are as real as the actual actions. The memories of these actions eat away at us, and hover over us at all times as if they are alive and targeting us. "stand between you and the comfort you will need." The poem is saying that these regrets are dark shadows that loom over us and eat away at our sanity and well being keeping us in a constant state of discomfort. "...rot your gums and tear the teeth out of your head." This quote and the ones that follow lead me to believe that by addressing these regrets, maybe there will be some sort of relief. It mentions the mouth and noise. Maybe Rattray is trying to relay the message that this should be let out and not stay within to rot your mouth and soul. Apparently the screeching is heard, but it is within the person, so opening the mouth may be the solution to the problem. Towards the end it mentions being in a hospice bed, and being continually tormented. I believe that you are supposed to make things right before you die, and in order to rest in peace you have to set things straight.
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